{"id":228,"date":"2020-06-01T17:47:04","date_gmt":"2020-06-01T15:47:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/?p=228"},"modified":"2020-07-01T22:11:09","modified_gmt":"2020-07-01T20:11:09","slug":"lukasz-jeziorski-plumresearch","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/lukasz-jeziorski-plumresearch\/","title":{"rendered":"Q&A with \u0141ukasz Jeziorski, PlumResearch\u2019s CEO & Founder"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

“I\u2019m always hungry for the next big thing,” says \u0141ukasz Jeziorski<\/a>, the magnetic CEO & Founder of PlumResearch<\/a>. His powerhouse of a startup has grown to a sizable dispersed team (across three major Polish cities) with a client list that now includes top Hollywood studios and heavyweight global broadcasters.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But \u0141ukasz is just getting started. Since pivoting his company in 2016, he’s had a straight-line vision for PlumResearch: to create a platform that can provide the most comprehensive, reliable, and granular data for the biggest players in television and film.

“A billion bucks of revenue is still the horizon,” he adds with a half-serious laugh. “I love moving the goalpost constantly for myself.”

We sat down with \u0141ukasz via Zoom to hear about how he pivoted PlumResearch, what he thinks about iterating to MVP, and how startup founders should approach getting their first client.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Can you tell us about the road your startup took from music to television and film?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sure, we first built the product to help the music industry monetize pirated content. We were looking at the part of the market that wasn\u2019t aware that they had pirated content or that had it for so long that they wanted to contribute towards certain artists, and we thought it would be a great idea to have them pay a couple of bucks \u2014 the sort of iTunes model.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

While it turned out that would not be the best PR for these companies, they loved the underlying data in our product, that you could see, for instance, which songs people have, what they’ve downloaded, and so on. So then we built the product for those labels. Along the way, we went back and forth with a lot of major organizations, like IFPI or the RIAA, and in 2016 we were invited to Cannes to Midem<\/a>, the top music conference in the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the stage while speaking to the jury at Midem, I found out that they don\u2019t really need the product or they don\u2019t get it. And I just wanted to ditch it basically right then and there at the conference. I also had a meeting with a great guy during the conference who mentioned that the SVOD platforms are not sharing data with the content owners, and that film & television market is far more data savvy. So I thought, \u201cLet\u2019s just screw it and pivot.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Were there any pain points you encountered with pivoting?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It was basically starting everything from scratch. The biggest pain point was the human part of it, but it took me like a day or two to get everyone on board. It was quite a nice robust product, so I had to come into the office and tell people that we\u2019re just ditching it. Just like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u0141ukasz on the Midem stage in 2016<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

For founders working towards their MVP, what advice do you have?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Better done than perfect! [laughs] Basically get it out there as soon as you can. Speak with everybody about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Let’s dive into that.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In our business, the customer really wants to know step-by-step how our company works. Only then are they confident about putting money on the table. So if they\u2019re confident, they can sell you forward internally within the organization. If they are not 100% sure, they will not go forward. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

So no \u201cfake it ’til you make it\u201d approach. It\u2019s build your stuff, make it better done than perfect, push it out to the market, sell it as soon as you can, and then work with your initial customers on fine-tuning that product.<\/p>\u2014 \u0141ukasz Jeziorski<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

With every single business in every single industry, people will spend far too much time on a product that nobody wants \u2014 something that just does not have product-market fit ultimately.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What was it like to iterate on your product while working with your first client?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

The first customer we had was actually a major film studio. They assigned like 50 researchers to our product, and we went back and forth with each person, showing them the product, implementing their suggestions, and then proceeding to the next person. We basically had calls like every second day, and we had to implement the ideas really fast. Even if it was as scrappy as just showing that we know where we\u2019re going on the roadmap, even though it\u2019s not really ready. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then when we had gone through the whole round of like 50 people, we redid it, showing them all how far we’d gone. We showed them what sort of data we have, how deep it is, how granular it is, and all we wanted was their help in visualizing it \u2014 what sort of business intelligence are you trying to make out of that data? We will just do it for you, and you hopefully will become our first customer. If not, all good because we just ended up with a great product and there is no hook on the other side. But obviously since they co-built that product, they signed on immediately.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

No time within an accelerator will be as efficient as just working with a customer, unless it\u2019s an accelerator that puts you in touch with a customer.<\/p>\u2014 \u0141ukasz Jeziorski<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

How willing are these major corporations to put resources towards working with a startup?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Oh, absolutely they are not. [laughs] Let me explain. It basically depends on the corporation and on who you approach at which level, and if there is a separate team or department that is bound to work with startups. So with one of our potential customers right now, we are working through a team that basically does just that \u2014 they identify the right person within the organization that would benefit from the product most, as well as they often look at your product and see what additional benefits can be found. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

We had a customer that said, \u201cYou know what, this type of information might be really interesting to our Piracy Department. If you could tweak it a bit, pivot it a bit\u2026\u201d And they just connected us with both the Research team and the Piracy Department. They were also constantly following up to make sure that the whole conversation didn\u2019t fade out. So it\u2019s great, but that company is one of the very, very few.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How do you evaluate and parse through the customer feedback?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the sales side, it\u2019s often important to evaluate if that prospect is going to close ever, which is not easy. On the product side, we have a policy that we try to build in anything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So for instance, when customers come to us and ask, \u201cWhat is the customization potential?\u201d We say, \u201cWe can do anything you want and the internal policy is that if you are okay with growing our product \u2014 contributing towards product development \u2014 we will not charge you anything for that. We won\u2019t charge you a dollar. But if you think you came up with a secret sauce or a metric that should be proprietary, then we would most likely think about making it for your account only and then we probably might bill.” Or, if it\u2019s very simple, we would just make it part of the product for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s more important to actually work with a customer, to have the right relationship with them, instead of focusing on if they are right. Who am I to judge that? Let\u2019s put that feature in and see if they actually use it. If it\u2019s something huge, then the obvious approach is cross-checking \u2014 asking them sometime later, or asking somebody else from that team or that company or that department.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But from a sales perspective, if those are tiny features and prospects say, \u201cOh, you don\u2019t have this feature and it\u2019s a problem,\u201d then you need to ask, “Okay, but is it a problem so that you won\u2019t sign with us because we lack that feature? Okay. Then can you sign an agreement that says if I don\u2019t deliver that feature in a month, for instance, that you will get full money back guaranteed?” And the answer is out there immediately.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
\u0141ukasz presenting PlumResearch at the 2017 Sports StartUp Project<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

What would you tell founders who are thinking of pitching these mid-to-large sized corporations, especially in the US?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Most of the companies want you to come up with a very tight vision. They don\u2019t want to be the guinea pig. People don\u2019t want to spend the time or resources, and basically their reputation within the company, bringing in something that has not yet been vetted by the market or internally by somebody within the company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So you need to come in and have a very, very specific vision, a certain use case, the right unique selling points, and also have them adjusted towards that person. You need to understand what they\u2019re asking for. Often they won\u2019t tell you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For example, people will send us requests through our contact form on the website and say, \u201cHey, we are really interested in this and this data.\u201d And we ask, \u201cOkay, can you share a specific use case? What do you need it for? Instead of showing you the whole powerhouse, we can show you exactly how to solve your problems.” They might then say, \u201cOh, I\u2019m just looking around.\u201d People have problems with articulating their actual problems. They often know that they have an issue that they want to cover, but sometimes they don\u2019t want to share because \u201cproblems\u201d sound bad. They already need solutions, even if they tell you problems don\u2019t exist.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So then you have to approach it by thinking what a company of this sort would be interested in, on a much higher level. What are the key problems that they\u2019re facing on a daily basis? Look at the position that company has, if they\u2019re looking at multi-platform, or international or domestic, and you just have to work it out from that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

To recap, you need to have a very specific and narrow \u2014 like needle point \u2014 approach that you come in with to every single company, to every single meeting, to every single call. You have to have a plan, and you have to understand what you\u2019re coming with. It\u2019s not a shop they can browse around. You need to come in and say, \u201cHey, this is for you. You need to buy this.\u201d Without obviously being that obvious.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And to get that first client, you of course didn’t have a case study yet. How did you get around that?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I had a sort of dummy page, where we initially put the most obvious analysis \u2014 like popularity. Title by title is the most obvious. We looked at other products and what they looked like, and tried to put similar but also better information in that sense. We were trying to get them interested. Then it was a game of following up and saying, \u201cLook how much we\u2019ve advanced. Look how much we\u2019ve gone forward.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A few years after we began working with our first client, I received feedback about what was that selling point. It was the fact that we had really, really gone forward. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

We were not just waiting for somebody to come in and help us. Even though we didn\u2019t have that initial customer who told us what we should do, it was more that we were still going forward, we were pushing, we were hustling basically.<\/p>\u2014 \u0141ukasz Jeziorski<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

And they thought, \u201cOkay, these guys are the real deal. They really want to do this, so let\u2019s help them.\u201d And that\u2019s how we did it together.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How did you pick up your sales skills? Any books or workshops?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Neither. I was building a product and just wanted to build it with somebody. If I\u2019m bringing a product to market, who is better than the market itself to help me build that product? It made it a lot easier because I had absolutely no idea about the industry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There\u2019s that approach to \u201ceat your own dog food,\u201d so like you use the products that you\u2019re building. But I don\u2019t really believe that\u2019s the right approach because it\u2019s much easier when you have absolutely no insight into the industry, you’re unbiased, and you really need to do the right research. You\u2019re just learning the whole industry from scratch, and you really just want to bring that product to market for<\/em> the market, rather than saying, \u201cYes, I\u2019ll bring an e-sports product, and because I\u2019m a gamer, I\u2019ll do it like this.\u201d Well, gaming companies look at it completely differently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I actually recently took a course on MasterClass with Chris Voss, the FBI negotiator<\/a>. It\u2019s one of the best things I\u2019ve seen in my life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What\u2019s one takeaway from that MasterClass?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I often jump into meeting rooms where I\u2019m alone or there\u2019s like two of us, and on the other side there\u2019s 12, 15, 20 different people. There\u2019s usually one or two people designated to run the conversation on their side, or to be responsible for the whole deal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

One of the things Chris mentioned only once is to look at the people who are not the ones designated to negotiate because they don\u2019t remember to keep a straight face. If I\u2019m negotiating with you, you want to keep a poker face as much as you can. But the people around you, they don\u2019t really remember about it. They\u2019re like bystanders, so they react emotionally, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So now if I shoot a number into the air, even if that person in front of me says, \u201cOkay\u201d or \u201cThat\u2019s outrageous!\u201d I can see the other faces because they know the ballpark number or the strategy of that whole meeting. I can see if I\u2019m hitting the right mark or not. These people usually tell me a lot more just with their body language or facial expressions than the person who is speaking and running the whole conversation. It was worth it paying for the whole year of MasterClass just to have that one sentence out of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

***<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Lightning round<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

1. Last book you read: Who is Michael Ovitz?<\/a>
2. Time you do your best work: At night
3. Fave tech newsletter: I don\u2019t subscribe to any
4. Best dish you can make: Scrambled eggs
5. Worst advice you ever received: \u201cPeople aren’t going to pay for it\u201d*<\/p>\n\n\n\n

*\u201cIf you look deeper, people will pay for everything. There is a market for everything. It\u2019s just a matter of the size of the business you want to have.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

***<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Since pivoting his company in 2016, \u0141ukasz Jeziorski has had a straight-line vision for PlumResearch: to create a platform that can provide the most comprehensive, reliable, and granular data for the biggest players in television and film. And right now, he’s blowing past the goalposts.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":418,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11,10],"tags":[22,32,30,31,29,33],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/228"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=228"}],"version-history":[{"count":40,"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/228\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":425,"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/228\/revisions\/425"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/418"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=228"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=228"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/techniventures.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=228"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}